tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10059313.post4079216163411128243..comments2023-10-22T04:53:10.706-07:00Comments on LIVING THE WRITER'S LIFE: PROGRESS REPORT #52: IN PRAISE OF WOMENWynn Bextonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08606284153866696343noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10059313.post-40432743214487340722009-03-16T00:27:00.000-07:002009-03-16T00:27:00.000-07:00Haven't done the alterations yet. Hung out all day...Haven't done the alterations yet. Hung out all day at a nice pub listening to Irish music. I will alter Barsine's dialogue and will also add a bit earlier when she has seen ships in the harbour (some of Antigonos fleet setting sail) and will reminisce about Memnon's role.<BR/>I also have to add something much earlier on (in about Part II) to indicate that Herakles was 3 yrs old when Alexander died. They do not play a very large part in the story-line but are never the less important players in the drama.<BR/><BR/>This Nabarzanes, of course, is a fictional character. (Not the one mentioned in the histories).<BR/><BR/>I guess another of the problems (with research) besides the conflicting dates etc are the conflicting names. <BR/><BR/>I might add, that as most of the action in this story takes place in Macedonia starring Roxana and her son, a lot of the political stuff is just referred to by various means. But for Part VII I needed to be a bit more explicit as these final wars are what helps bring down the dynasty. And we all know how it ends.Wynn Bextonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08606284153866696343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10059313.post-54319414045594952712009-03-15T21:20:00.000-07:002009-03-15T21:20:00.000-07:00Not sarcastic or acerbic ... direct. Which, I'm af...Not sarcastic or acerbic ... direct. Which, I'm afraid, I'm prone to on occasion. Sometimes it is easier that way.<BR/><BR/>By the way, Peithon Crateau actually commanded Antigonus's <I>left</I> wing in those battles. 'Fraid I'd just got done with final editing of a long piece on the Battle of Gabiene. I'd difficulty in conveying the fact that Peithon – and his left wing cavalry – wound up over on Antigonus's right where the Silver Shields were indulging in rather a large spot of bloody mayhem. Nothing like reconstructing Diodorus.<BR/><BR/>So you see, even I – a hush descends over the site – am capable of error (pins drop loudly as hush becomes dead silence…).<BR/><BR/>Glad to hear you’ve made changes. A comfortable chair and decent red will do....<BR/><BR/>What did you alter re Memnon?Father Parkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17730545750736977600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10059313.post-4648793758048604642009-03-15T11:32:00.000-07:002009-03-15T11:32:00.000-07:00I must also add, in addition to following Livius' ...I must also add, in addition to following Livius' Chronology, that yes, I happen to have printed out a lot of the writing from his site which I also refer to. I recently printed out the Memnon bio and will make the necessary corrections to my text. A small slip-up mentioned only in the dialogue between Barsine and Nabarzanes.Wynn Bextonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08606284153866696343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10059313.post-73468612280293849772009-03-15T02:10:00.000-07:002009-03-15T02:10:00.000-07:00Father Park, I do appreciate your expertise on the...Father Park, I do appreciate your expertise on the subject and actually have noted the discrepancies you pointed out which I will alter. I was miffed by the tone of your first critique. As a writing teacher and also a person familiar with critiquing, it is not OK to be sarcastic and ascerbic when doing so. That is upsetting rather than helpful. <BR/><BR/>I went to see Shakespeare's "Coriolanus" tonight and while watching this rather complicated play my mind drifted off to my own novel and came up with some revisions I intend to make based on your critique. So thanks.<BR/><BR/>To my Greek writer, DA Riser,<BR/>I'm going back in June hopefully for a full month. I base myself in Athens as I know the city and have friends there to stay with; and will later travel around a bit. I'm thinking of going back up north again to see the tombs for a third time and a few other sites. Philippi and my one of myfavorite islands, Thassos.Wynn Bextonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08606284153866696343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10059313.post-69718362847994104282009-03-12T17:50:00.000-07:002009-03-12T17:50:00.000-07:00Pressfield, while an accomplished writer, is a bit...Pressfield, while an accomplished writer, is a bit graphic for my tastes.<BR/><BR/>To answer your question, Wynn, I have been to Greece and hope to return again when I've some funds to do so. It's an absolute wonderfully charming place. <BR/><BR/>Phaiakia (the land in my book) is described by Homer as enchanted, but I've done my best to see that I adhere to the time period. It's not an easy feat. I can definitely appreciate what you've said about the conflicting sources.<BR/><BR/>I should point out that even one as immortal as Homer didn't follow the facts. His work is strewn with out of period exceptions. It still makes for a great story, though. As long as it's not marketed as educational, I'll take beauty over truth in a book. <BR/><BR/>An entertaining read covers a multitude of sins when it comes to altering history to fit a novel. If it's a good story, anything can be forgiven. I would, however, stick a section of author's notes at the end and convey to the reader what was changed from fact to fiction.<BR/><BR/>What fun!D.A. Riserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03312649755644000259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10059313.post-31062502835764638572009-03-12T17:04:00.000-07:002009-03-12T17:04:00.000-07:00Did Memnon ever “run from battle like Darius did o...Did Memnon ever “run from battle like Darius did on a number of occasions”?<BR/><BR/>The answer, I’m afraid, is yes. If we remove the emotive “run” Memnon, self evidently, escaped the carnage of Granicus. He also escaped from Miletus (Diodorus says “took flight”) with the other Persians and resisters. Finally he “abandoned” Halicarnassus after his allied mercenary commander, Ehpialtes, had died leading the heroic mercenary phalanx charge on the Macedonians.<BR/><BR/>That would be three times that Memnon “ran”. <BR/><BR/>Of course, this is not ever presented so in the Helleno-centric sources. Rather it is Memnon, as commander, removing himself when matters are lost so as to lead and fight again. When Darius, at Issos and Gaugamela, is shown doing the same thing, he is a coward who runs.<BR/><BR/>You are using Jona’s Livius site, you should read his rendition of these conflicts – especially the desertion of Darius by his troops at Gaugamela.<BR/><BR/>Back to the post that was “etherised”.<BR/><BR/><I>I know how you historians hate historical fiction accounts. I have seen how you put down Steven Pressfield.</I><BR/><BR/>Now, now. Next you’ll be calling us “ilk”. I do not mean to pester or attack; merely to help. You’ve asked many questions (at Pothos) and I’ve attempted answers. If this book is published and if it is widely read, many may be interested enough to read the actual history. In that case you don’t wish to appear lax or flippant with it.<BR/><BR/>In which case, there may be many reasons why your Narbazarnes might be advised not to travel to Babylon (Seleucus is in Egypt and Peucestas has been deposed and brought under Antigonus’s sway) rather than Babylon undergoing a siege that did not occur. Perhaps, as Ptolemy is not invading the seaports of Phoenicia, he might be better advised to contact Seleucus, commanding Ptolemy’s navy, who was invading the cities of Cyprus and, later, Caria?<BR/><BR/>I do not “hate” historical fiction. My favourite historical novel is <I>Burr</I> by Gore Vidal (closely followed by <I>Creation</I> and <I>1876</I>). The secret is to get the facts right and blend a story within their bounds – not to change them to suit a “better” story. This then becomes “histrionic” fiction.<BR/><BR/>I’ve read Pressfield. My concerns with his writing are pretty much limited to <I>Tides of War</I>. He commits the error above when he invents an assault on Ephesus so as to pit Alcibiades and Lysander against each other (from memory). This never occurred. The main problem with this book is attempting to cover 27 years with one central character. Far too difficult a task as Alcibiades only is centre stage for the period 420 – 407.<BR/><BR/>I shall take the hint though and but out…Father Parkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17730545750736977600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10059313.post-31521233911497551402009-03-12T15:18:00.000-07:002009-03-12T15:18:00.000-07:00In the last part of Shadow I am not necessarily dr...In the last part of Shadow I am not necessarily dramatizing any of the battles or conflict, merely mentioning them in narrative (otherwise it will be too dry and expand the novel which is already too long) It is mainly concerned with the final years of Roxana and young Alexander (Iskander). I am going over all the pages of research that I have been following (not just from livius.org but also from other sources and matching up the dates, times of years the events supposedly happened etc.<BR/><BR/>If my interpretation of Memnon doesn't suit the historians, I am going by what I have read about him and the fact that Alexander admired him as a general and treated his family respectfully when they were captured. Did he ever run from battle like Darius did on a number of occasions?<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your advice. I am doing my best to untangle the events in spite of many conflicting pieces of information.<BR/><BR/>To the Greek Writer, yes I enjoyed looking at your site and I think you have chosen a very interesting subject to write about. Have you been to Homer's land? I've been to nearly all the places (including Ithaka). Greece is my second home. Will be returning there shortly.Wynn Bextonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08606284153866696343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10059313.post-41205797126872274582009-03-12T06:20:00.000-07:002009-03-12T06:20:00.000-07:00Hi Wynn,Thanks for visiting my blog. I responded t...Hi Wynn,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for visiting my blog. I responded to you there, but in case you don't see it, I wanted to let you know I added your blog to my google reader. <BR/><BR/>I look forward to reading your finished work. This post from Book VII was great! Quite enjoyable and highly readable.<BR/><BR/>Also, have you read David Gemmell's "Dark Prince" and "Lion of Macedon"? They cover the birth and boyhood of Alexander.<BR/><BR/>Go Greece!D.A. Riserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03312649755644000259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10059313.post-8117329571957045482009-03-12T04:36:00.000-07:002009-03-12T04:36:00.000-07:00It appears my previous explanatory post has been d...It appears my previous explanatory post has been deleted? Anyway…<BR/><BR/>Livius (Jona) is an excellent source for material. The chronology you’re following (as he) is called “the low”. It is, to my (and many others’) mind, past its use by date. It will not affect your novel in any great fashion other than you being a year late and having to cram over two years’ worth of action into 313 so as it will fit. You will find <A HREF="http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~phoenix/full_text/v52.3-4_1998/wheatley.pdf" REL="nofollow">this dry</A> and, likely, boring but it is seminal.<BR/><BR/><I>Regarding Memnon, I have also read this in other sources that he was the strength that helped Darius and once he was killed Darius fled.</I><BR/><BR/>Wrong. Memnon was given command of those “by the sea” by Darius and his wife and children were held hostage for his good behaviour. He was to fight a holding and diverting coastal battle whilst Darius assembled a royal army. Which army he led, far from fleeing after Memnon’s death, to battle at Issos. He then – sans Memnon – led another at Guagamela (on these you need to read Jona’s descriptions)<BR/><BR/>Your source material has mislead you I’m afraid.<BR/><BR/><I>PS, and according to my research, Peithon was killed by Antigonos orders after he had come out of Media, lured with an offer of alliance. And that was some time in 315. He had revolted in Spring 318, was defeated in that same autumn and was later killed.</I><BR/><BR/>PS, You have your Peithons irretrievably confused – and I don’t mean snakes. Peithon (son of) Crateuas, Antigonus’s ally for the 318-316 campaign against Eumenes and <I>somatophylax</I> of Alexander, was convicted in a “kangaroo court” of Antigonus’s philoi in 316. Antigonus did not like ambitious allies. Peithon led Antigonus’s right wing in both major battles of that campaign (Paraetecene and Gabiene) – a difficult thing to do in revolt.<BR/><BR/>Eumenes “revolted” from Antigonus in 318 having repudiated the alliance he contracted to get out of the siege of Nora – not Peithon.<BR/><BR/>As I wrote: Peithon (son of) Agenor assumed the satrapy of Babylonia sometime after Seleucus was expelled (he came west from here to fight alongside Demetrius at Gaza). There was no siege of Babylon unless one considers Seleucus’ storming of it in 312 or 311 such.<BR/><BR/>Another bottle of red at the publication party or am I no longer invited??Father Parkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17730545750736977600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10059313.post-64952097910047596622009-03-11T23:58:00.000-07:002009-03-11T23:58:00.000-07:00PS, and according to my research, Peithon was kill...PS, and according to my research, Peithon was killed by Antigonos orders after he had come out of Media, lured with an offer of alliance. And that was some time in 315. He had revolted in Spring 318, was defeated in that same autumn and was later killed.Wynn Bextonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08606284153866696343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10059313.post-57406761176250874082009-03-11T23:52:00.000-07:002009-03-11T23:52:00.000-07:00I have right here in front of me the Chonology of ...I have right here in front of me the Chonology of the Diadochi (from www.livius.org) as well I have consulted some other sources. It says here clearly:<BR/>315 (Jan) Euemens defeated<BR/>315 (spring) Seleukos flees<BR/>314 (Spring) Third Diadochi War<BR/>314 (summer) Antigonos in Phoenicia<BR/>314 (Autumn) Antigonos declares freedom of Gree. Ptolemy seizes Cyprus<BR/>etc. <BR/>And that is what I am following for my research (besides the other info I have here.)<BR/><BR/>Regarding Memnon, I have also read this in other sources that he was the strength that helped Darius and once he was killed Darius fled. <BR/><BR/>And yes, I know the battle in Gaza is in 312 (autumn) and Ptolemy is in Cilicia in Summer of 312. Then, in May 311 he invades Syria and Seleukos returns to Babylon. Etc Etc<BR/><BR/>I know how you historians hate historical fiction accounts. I have seen how you put down Steven Pressfield. But I am doing my best to be as careful with the 'facts' as I can, no matter how many of them are contradictory (and there are lots!) I believe it is a member of pothos.org who has posted Chronology. And I believe he is also a scholar?Wynn Bextonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08606284153866696343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10059313.post-60325591426336763812009-03-10T19:27:00.000-07:002009-03-10T19:27:00.000-07:00“Ptolemy’s navy has invaded all the seaports of Ph...<I>“Ptolemy’s navy has invaded all the seaports of Phoenicia. The coalition of Diodochi have declared war against Antigonos. Come summer, torrents of Greek and Macedonian blood will flow.” </I><BR/><BR/>This will be the winter of 316/15. In which case, Ptolemy’s fleet is doing no such thing. Seleucus, Ptolemy’s “admiral”, has “invaded all the seaports of Cyprus” (315) as Asander (Caria) allies himself with Ptolemy.<BR/><BR/><I>“We all knew that Memnon was the strength and brains behind the Persian army… Without Memnon’s brilliant leadership Darius was nothing. Darius knew he could not stop Alexander” </I><BR/><BR/>Cough, choke, splutter… I suppose that’s what a wife might say. Even so, it’s a bit like saying “we all knew (Australian PM) John Howard was the brains behind the CoW. Without his brilliant leadership…”<BR/><BR/><I>“Seleukos has been driven out of Babylonia and the city is under siege by Antigonos, so it is too dangerous for you to return home.”</I><BR/><BR/>Seleucus was forced out of Babylonia in late summer 316. Peithon (son of Agenor) assumed the satrapy sometime after (he came west from here to fight alongside Demetrius at Gaza). There was no siege of Babylon unless one considers Seleucus’ storming of it in 312 or 311 such.<BR/><BR/>Yes, I know it is not a history as such but one should limit the violence one does to history. The "armies on land" will be Asander's end in Caria (as well as Kassander's)? The big confrontation, Gaza, won't happen until March/April 312.Father Parkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17730545750736977600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10059313.post-66582661426642225422009-03-09T23:29:00.000-07:002009-03-09T23:29:00.000-07:00I workshopped the interlude part at the end of Par...I workshopped the interlude part at the end of Part VI tonight and got extremely favorable critiques on it. I've working on the second chapter of Part VII now and made a lot of notes today so I should proceed with that by tomorrow.<BR/><BR/>(the photos are off the internet. I've been to Ephesus, but it was a long time ago before the days of digital cameras -- when I used to live in Greece in the '80's. I went there a couple of times. The ruins there now are mainly Roman period.)Wynn Bextonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08606284153866696343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10059313.post-86399207922930456592009-03-09T09:42:00.000-07:002009-03-09T09:42:00.000-07:00Another great chapter, as usual! And I love the pi...Another great chapter, as usual! And I love the pictures. They're fantastic. I hope you can finish your novel soon. I feel like I've waited forever for all my fave authors to finish with their work, but I know it will be worth it. :)Meghanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03375626649089998707noreply@blogger.com